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2016.01.24

AN INTERVIEW WITH BANKSY ABOUT DISMALAND

Dismaland 閉園後も話題のBunksy

Juxtapozでのインタビュー

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Evan Pricco: What, in particular, was the genesis of this project? Were you surfing the web and grabbed by some insights on how you wanted to present Dismaland and the artists you wanted to work with? Was it a way for you to gather together a bunch of people you admired to create one thing? Is it a little bit like the chicken or the egg? Was curating a group show something you wanted to do with these artists, or did seeing all this art make you think up Dismaland?

Banksy: Like so many projects, it started with a gap in the fence. Eight months ago, I came to Weston on a windy day, and one of the boards on the gate had blown down. From the first glimpse through the gap, I was smitten. I used to come here swimming as a kid, but no one's been inside for fifteen years.

The best thing is the wall. It means you get to have a show outside, but within a heavily fortified beach-front compound. That's quite unusual.

I first thought it would be a solo show. But then, after the city council agreed to lend me the building, I immediately sobered up and went looking for help. A lot of the art is as much a surprise to me as it will be to other people. I only came across Neta Harare Navon three weeks ago when I was online shopping for sheds. And what do you know, she's quietly over there in Tel Aviv making the perfect model of how to paint. You mail her and she comes over--incredible.

It's a good project because it keeps surprising me. And this is what I've learnt over the years: no amount of PR or hype can sell the world something if it's not exciting you.

Did you ask each artist to make new work? Or was there an opportunity to show past works you liked?
A bit of both.

So was there anyone you chose to be in the show that brought out ideas which changed the course of Dismaland?
It's been enriched by a lot of people and grown. It's pretty unusual to find a children's playground with a payday loan shop attached. But it's always been quite a broad brief, to embrace or attack any part of the light entertainment industry you've ever been sold or let down by. Essentially, the big theme is that theme parks should have bigger themes. Although I did institute a site-wide ban on images of Mickey Mouse.

Some works that I've seen so far have obvious political impact, but there are a lot of artists who are subversive and just plain funny. Was that a balance that you appreciated and wanted to see living side-by-side? Obviously having Zaria Forman's beautiful natural landscape paintings next to Jessica Harrison's porcelain pieces has two narratives, although together they can create an interesting storyline and visual experience.
Yes, I should make it very clear: this is not a street art show. There are women in it.

Tell us about your role here. Has it been an interesting process being a curator? Is it a role that you enjoyed?
It turns out curating can be surprisingly creative. For instance, I asked Jenny Holzer for one of her electronic signs, but she didn't have anything in stock. She said she was happy to supply the text, but I'd have to find some signs. I asked a lighting guy to get a big LED screen and he came back with a system that cost £8000 a week to rent. I couldn't afford that, so I suggested we record Jenny's slogans and play them over the Tannoy system. She liked the idea and said she'd never done anything like it in forty years. So now we have a totally original Jenny Holzer that cost fuck all.

Did you do a lot of editing? Were there things you liked at first that got cut out and other things that grew because you liked the direction they were heading?
A lot of the decisions have been made by neglect. I put together a whole list of artists and pieces I wanted, and then, a month later, if I hadn't done anything about it, I knew it probably wasn't worth pursuing. When you're busy, the most important things have a way of asserting themselves. I discovered "not now" is as valid a reaction as anything else.

How much does the reaction matter to you? I know it matters to us, the critics and audience, but fuck us for a second. Does it matter to you?
I'm at a point with art where I only really care if the piece is more than the sum of its parts. I'm lucky because what I make either succeeds or fails. Some people undoubtedly would tell you that's why it's crap art, but that's the way it is. I feel sorry for Abstract Expressionists--how do they know when to go home?

All I need is to make my point and get something more out of it than what I put in. If something extra has happened between the idea and realizing it, that's a win. This week I surrounded my Cinderella's carriage with a ring of paparazzi, and the flash bulbs made the shadows leap around the room, and the pumpkin looked like it was lit by flickering candles, so I'm good. I never saw that coming.

My satisfaction level is independent of your opinion. If I feel a piece has worked, there's nothing you can say that will take that away. And the flip side is, if I know it's failed, there's nothing you can say that would make it OK.

This project, in particular, is so destination-based that you will really rely on audience reaction. You have always been good at controlling your message, but did joining social media teach you anything that you liked? Or disliked?
The last show I did was at the Bristol Museum and a lot of people came. In fact, the queue was the most interesting thing about it. I don't know if people will show up this time, but I made a few pieces with the audience in mind: the Cinderella sculpture is only complete when surrounded by a gawping crowd snapping photos. The audience is the punchline. Likewise, the killer whale is crap in real life. It's only good when you pose behind it pulling a face and send a picture to your mate.

What are you hoping visitors take away from Dismaland?
A souvenir programme, three T-shirts and a mug. Each. This project isn't sponsored or government aided; it's self-financing.

一部の訳(Hypebeastより)

この"Dismaland"でのあなたの役割はどんなものでしたか? キュレーターとしてのプロセスは楽しかった?

キュレーションが驚くほどクリエイティブな作業だと気付いたよ。例えば、「Jenny Holzer(ジェニーホルツァー)」に彼女のネオンサインを頼んだんだけど、彼女は作品のストックを持ってなかったんだ。でも文章や文字はくれるって。だから業者からデカいLEDのスクリーンを頼んで使おうとしたら、レンタルに1週間で £8,000 GBP(およそ150万円)かかるって言われたんだ。無理だろ。だから彼女の声を録音して、〈タンノイ〉のスピーカーで流そうって言ったんだ。彼女は快諾して、こんなこと40年間一度もしたことがないって言ったよ。これで俺たちは全くオリジナルな「Jenny Holzer」の作品を手に入れたんだ。バカみたいな金額を使わずにね。

展示内容の構想、編集は多かったですか? はじめは気に入っていたことをやめたり、別の物の方向性が突然面白く感じたりしたことは?

放っておいて決まったことが多いな。たくさんのアーティストや作品をリストアップしていたけど、1カ月後にそのリストの名前に対して自分が何もしていなかったら、その内容は進めるほどの価値がなかったんだと思う。忙しい時こそ、大事なことは自分の頭の中で主張してくるだろ、やらなきゃ、って。だから、"まだいいや"っていう感情が、気づいたらいらないものを削ぎ落とす結果になってたよ。


世間の反応は気にしますか? 我々批評家や観客は大いに気にしますが。それはさておき、あなたは気になりますか?

アート作品としてみた時に、その作品が、ただそれを構成する部品の集合体以上のものになったかということが気になるよ。成功も失敗も作れるなんて、僕はラッキーだと思うんだ。誰かはこれをゴミみたいなアートだって言うけど、だってそういうもんなんだ。抽象表現主義の人たちには悪いと思ってるよ。彼らここから帰れないだろ?
とにかく、自分の思ったことを表現して世に出したとき、自分が詰め込んだ以上のものが生まれることが大事なんだ。提示されたアイディアとそれに対する気づきの間で、何か余計なことが起こったらもうそれで勝ちなんだ。この前シンデレラの馬車の周りにパパラッチの群れを置いたんだ。フラッシュの光が部屋中に影を作って、カボチャはチラチラ燃えるろうそくで照らされてるみたいだった。だから満足だよ。あんなふうに見えると思ってなかったから。

俺が満足かどうかは誰かの意見とは違うところにあるんだ。ある作品が上出来だと思ったら、誰も俺の感情に介入できないからね。逆を言うと、自分で失敗だと思ったものに、どんな言葉をかけてもらってもOKにはならないんだ。

このプロジェクトは特に、会場ありき、オーディエンスありきの内容ですよね。あなたはこれまで自分のメッセージをとてもうまくコントロールしていましたが、ソーシャルメディアへの参加はそれに何か変化をもたらしましたか?良かったこと、嫌だったことは?

前回『Bristol Museum』でやったショーにはすごくたくさん人が来て、もはやその長蛇の列がショーで一番面白かったことかもしれない。今回は人が来るか想像できなかったけど、シンデレラのスカププチャーは来場者ありきで作ったんだ。あれは周りからたくさん写真を撮られて初めて完成するものだから。人食いクジラもね。そこにあるだけだったらゴミみたいなんだ。でも後ろから顔を出して写真を撮って、それを友達に送ってやっと意味がある。

あなたが"Dismaland"に来た人たちに受け取ってほしいものとは何ですか?

一人につき3枚のTシャツとマグカップ。お土産ね。企業の提供も政府の援助もないから。"Dismaland"は自己資金で運営しているんだ。


3月からの映画『バンクシー・ダズ・ニューヨーク』も楽しみ

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2016 01.24 22:01 |POSTED by
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